What is the history and current state of the movement/group/issue chosen?

The Zizian group, often described as a cult or extremist group, traces its full known history to 2019 in California, with its alleged leader Jack "Ziz" LaSota. However, LaSota, a transgender tech whiz and devout vegan who had moved to the Bay Area, began publishing a dark and rambling blog under the name "Ziz" in 2016. Her writings attracted a niche audience interested in philosophy, artificial intelligence (AI), and radical social theories. The Zizians are described as an offshoot of the modern rationalist movement, which seeks to improve decision-making and ethics through logic and reason and is concerned with existential threats like hostile AI.

LaSota's ideas evolved into a controversial ideology combining extreme rationalism, ethical veganism, anarchism, transhumanism, and a deep distrust of established institutions, particularly mainstream rationalist communities. Key Zizian beliefs include an obsession with the potential dangers of AI, specifically the idea that a future superintelligent AI might use the meat industry as a blueprint for enslaving humanity unless those working on AI become vegan. LaSota also proposed unconventional theories about brain hemispheres having distinct values and genders that may conflict, potentially resolved through personal transformation. A key interpretation of rationalist "timeless decision theory" within the group is to never back down or surrender, regardless of the cost.

The group's shift from online philosophy to violent action became evident in 2019. Jack LaSota and others, including Emma Borhanian, Gwen Danielson, and Alexander Leatham, were arrested at a protest outside a Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR) event in Northern California. They wore black robes and Guy Fawkes masks, blocking entrances with a school bus and truck, and handing out flyers about their grievances. They stated they were protesting alleged sexual misconduct and anti-trans discrimination within rationalist organizations, as well as a perceived betrayal of rationalist principles by MIRI regarding an alleged blackmail payout. Following their arrests, they filed a civil rights lawsuit alleging wrongful arrest and abuse, though the case was later dismissed when the plaintiffs stopped appearing.

By 2020, the group had established a base in Vallejo, California, living first on a boat and then in box trucks on property owned by landlord Curtis Lind. They allegedly refused to pay rent after initially staying there for free during the pandemic. Michelle Zajko, another associate who had moved to the East Coast, registered to vote in Coventry, Vermont, in 2020.

The story became "progressively more violent" from the 2019 protest. Authorities say the Zizians have been tied to at least six killings across three states: California, Pennsylvania, and Vermont. These incidents include: * November 2022: An attack on Curtis Lind in Vallejo, CA. Emma Borhanian attacked Lind with a sword, partially blinding him. Lind shot and killed Borhanian in self-defense. Alexander Leatham and Suri Dao were later charged with murder in relation to this incident. * December 2022: The shooting deaths of Richard and Rita Zajko, Michelle Zajko's parents, in their Pennsylvania home. Michelle Zajko was quickly a focus for police due to a rocky relationship with her parents. While questioned, she was not initially charged with murder but was later arrested for obstruction and trespassing. Michelle Zajko denies murdering her parents. * January 2025: Curtis Lind was found dead on January 17, 2025. He was stabbed to death outside his property in Vallejo. Prosecutors allege Maximilian Snyder stabbed Lind, potentially to prevent him from testifying in the earlier attempted murder case. Snyder is in jail facing a first-degree murder charge and has denied being one of Ziz's friends. * January 2025: On January 20, 2025, US Border Patrol agent David Maland was killed in a shootout in Coventry, Vermont, after stopping a vehicle linked to Felix Bauckholt and Teresa Youngblut. Bauckholt also died in the shootout; Youngblut was wounded but survived. The handgun used was linked back to the Zizians, having been bought by Michelle Zajko in February 2024.

The current state of the Zizians involves ongoing investigations and legal cases across multiple states. On February 16, 2025, Jack LaSota, Michelle Zajko, and Daniel Blank were arrested in Maryland. They were denied bail as part of a wider investigation into their possible roles in multiple homicides linked to the group. They initially faced charges including obstruction, trespassing, and illegal handgun possession and have pleaded not guilty to misdemeanor charges. Snyder is charged with Lind's murder in California, and Youngblut has been held without bail in Vermont.

Michelle Zajko, writing from detention, has professed her innocence in her parents' deaths and rebutted news coverage, denying that she and her friends are a murder cult and claiming there are multiple groups involved, stating she is not with Snyder. She alleged a conspiracy against them by people in the rationalist community. The group's activities and network may extend beyond the US, with individuals like German national Felix Bauckholt involved in associated violent activities. The emergence of the group highlights concerns about ideological extremism fueled by online radicalization spilling into real-world violence. Investigators and the public face challenges in fully understanding their motives.

What are the elements of “Mythos” & “Logos” in this movement/group/issue?

Logos Elements:

The Zizian group has roots in the rationalist community, which emphasizes reason and logic as the ultimate source of truth, often applying rigorous, mathematically informed thinking to philosophy, psychology, and large-scale problems. A core element of their "Logos" is derived from this rationalist background. They are described as attempting to improve decision-making and ethics through logical thinking. Many members are skilled computer scientists or technically adept individuals.

Key rationalist concepts adopted or adapted by the group include discussions on AI safety and alignment, grappling with the existential threat of artificial intelligence and the question of whether a future AI will be aligned with humanity's interests. They engage with concepts like Bayesian probability and decision-making, game theory, cognitive biases, and epistemology (the study of knowledge).

A specific decision theory, Eliezer Yudkowsky's Functional Decision Theory (FDT), is mentioned as potentially Ziz's favorite. While mainstream FDT might recommend cooperation, the Zizian interpretation, according to one source, is to "fight bitterly… [make] it too costly to fight you," leading to a tendency for immediate violence. Another rationalist principle they grappled with was "timeless decision theory," which suggested not backing down or surrendering, even in the face of blackmail.

Furthermore, Ziz LaSota, the group's namesake, developed unconventional theories about consciousness and brain hemispheres. She proposed that the brain's two hemispheres could hold separate values, genders, and identities, sometimes desiring to kill each other. This theoretical concept was taken up by others in the group. They also experimented with "unihemispheric sleep," a practice presented as a method to make half of the brain sleep while the other half remains awake for optimal function.

The group's engagement with rationalist concepts, their technical backgrounds, and their specific theories on AI, decision-making, and consciousness represent the "Logos" aspect, grounded in logical, philosophical, and scientific (or pseudo-scientific) reasoning.

Mythos Elements:

The "Mythos" of the Zizians provides the narrative and symbolic framework for their beliefs and actions, often intertwining with their "Logos." The group is named after Jack "Ziz" LaSota's online persona, Ziz. The name Ziz comes from "Worm," a fantasy story, where Ziz is an alias for a monster called the Simurgh, described as an "infohazard" that makes people crazy if they encounter it for too long. This naming convention immediately injects a mythical, almost apocalyptic, self-perception into the group's identity.

Their origin story involves LaSota's disillusionment with mainstream rationalist communities (like MIRI and CFAR), whom she saw as not going far enough or being corrupt and morally weak, particularly regarding AI safety and alleged anti-trans discrimination and cover-ups. This narrative of breaking away from a perceived flawed system and pursuing a more "heroic" or "uncompromising" path is central to their identity.

A strong moral binary of good versus evil is a significant Mythos element. This is exemplified by their radical veganism, which is not just a dietary choice but a core philosophical and spiritual identity ("vegan anarchotranshumanism," "vegan Sith," "vegan Sith lord"). They viewed meat-eaters ("carnists," "flesh-eating monsters") as evil and believed that only vegans were morally pure enough to work on AI safety and prevent an AI-pocalypse where humanity would be treated like factory-farmed animals. This created a stark division between "good" (vegan) and "evil" (non-vegan) people. The concept of brain hemispheres with separate good and evil moralities further reinforced this binary within individuals.

The "Roko's basilisk" thought experiment, while rooted in theoretical AI risk ("Logos"), functions heavily as a Mythos element. It is a narrative about a future AI entity that will punish those who did not help bring it into existence, seen as an "infohazard" that simply knowing about is dangerous. Ziz and her followers took this idea seriously, framing it as a battle against "Evil gods" and incorporating the fear of future retribution into their worldview.

Symbols and actions also contribute to their Mythos. Wearing black robes and Guy Fawkes masks during protests created a dramatic, almost theatrical, visual identity associated with anti-establishment and anarchist themes. Concepts like needing to "jailbreak" their minds or "escape containment by society" suggest a narrative of liberation from societal constraints. The perception of constant threat, whether from AI, societal collapse, or persecution by outsiders, feeds a siege mentality and the narrative of being a vulnerable minority driven to extremes by a rejecting society. Even their alleged violence is sometimes framed within their Mythos, such as the idea that "most things aren’t immoral if done to bad people".

The Intertwining of Mythos and Logos:

In the Zizian case, the "Logos" of rationalism and AI theory became deeply enmeshed with a dramatic and apocalyptic "Mythos". Abstract logical principles like decision theory and AI alignment were interpreted through the lens of a struggle against "Evil gods" and "flesh-eating monsters," justifying extreme actions. The technical concept of AI risk was not just a problem to be solved but became the central threat in an epic narrative where the group saw themselves as heroes saving humanity (and sentient animals) from destruction or eternal torture. This intense blend of rational concepts and mythological narratives appears to have contributed to their radicalization and descent into violence.

How does this movement/group/issue fit into the “religious movement quadrant chart”?

The Zizians' origins are firmly rooted not in traditional religious belief, but in the modern rationalist community, particularly around the San Francisco Bay Area. This community focuses on applying logical thinking, Bayesian probability, decision theory, and scientific reasoning to solve complex problems, including the existential threat posed by artificial intelligence. Ziz LaSota, the group's namesake, was a computer programmer drawn to these ideas. This foundation suggests they would originate in a quadrant characterized by reason, logic, and a focus on real-world or future technological problems, rather than faith or spirituality in a conventional sense.

However, the Zizians rapidly diverged from mainstream rationalism. LaSota developed theories considered unconventional even within that community, such as the idea that the brain's hemispheres could be distinct moral entities. A core ideological component became radical veganism, viewing meat-eaters as "flesh-eating monsters" and believing only vegans were morally fit to address AI safety. This moral binary, coupled with concepts like "vegan Sith" and the notion of good/evil brain hemispheres, injects a stark, almost mythological dualism into their belief system, moving them away from pure rationalism towards a more ideological or zealous stance.

Their relationship with the outside world and their origin community shifted dramatically. They began within online rationalist forums and meetups, but after disagreements and perceived slights (including allegations of transphobia and cover-ups within rationalist organizations), they split off. This schism was marked by protests, a civil rights lawsuit, and increasing antagonism towards the rationalist establishment, whom they viewed as morally weak or corrupt. This indicates a trajectory from integration within a niche community to becoming an antagonistic splinter group.

The most significant characteristic placing them on a chart involving risk or danger is their alleged escalation to violence. What started as philosophical debate and protest allegedly morphed into targeted attacks, murder, and violent confrontations with law enforcement. This shift moves them from a category of philosophical or social movements into one labeled as dangerous, extremist, or even a "murder cult" by authorities and media. Michelle Zajko, a group member, denies the "murder cult" label, stating they are being lied about.

Regarding structure, the group is often referred to as a "cult" with Jack "Ziz" LaSota described as the alleged or apparent leader. However, some sources suggest they do not see themselves as a formal group or having a leader, describing them as a "clique" or a diffuse network. They are largely composed of transgender computer scientists and technical individuals. Their movement from living communally (on a boat, in box trucks) to scattering across states suggests a fluctuating level of physical cohesion, alongside ongoing online interaction. This structure is less like a rigid, centralized organization and more like a decentralized, ideologically bound network centered around a charismatic figure's online presence.

Finally, their self-perception includes terms like "vegan anarchotranshumanism" and viewing themselves as taking "heroic responsibility" for the world, suggesting a sense of grand purpose and moral superiority derived from their specific interpretation of rationalist ideas and vegan ethics.

In summary, based on the provided sources, the Zizians could be placed on a conceptual "religious movement quadrant chart" that considers:

Origin/Belief Basis: Rooted in Rational/Philosophical ideas (AI safety, decision theory), but infused with Zealous/Ideological elements (radical veganism, moral dualism, infohazards).
Relationship to Outsiders: Shifted from Engaged within a subculture to Antagonistic/Isolated from mainstream rationalism and society.
Methods: Escalated from Intellectual Debate/Protest to Alleged Violence/Extremism.
Structure: A Decentralized Network/Clique centered around a Charismatic Figure, rather than a formal, hierarchical organization.

This places them distinctly apart from traditional religious cults, situating them instead as a dangerous offshoot of a modern intellectual movement, radicalized through a potent mix of theoretical concepts and extremist ideology.

What comparisons or links can be made with similar movements/groups/issues that we have studied?

Based on the sources, several comparisons and links can be drawn between the Zizian group and other movements, groups, or issues:

Firstly, the most direct link is their origin within the Rationalist Community, particularly in the San Francisco Bay Area. The sources describe this community as focusing on logic, reason, and applying mathematical thinking to solve problems, including the existential threat of artificial intelligence (AI). The Zizians are presented as having split off from this community, partly due to disagreements over issues like radical veganism and alleged misconduct. This links them to the broader intellectual movement concerned with AI safety and effective altruism, but as a radicalized offshoot that took some of these ideas, such as the fear of an AI-pocalypse, to extreme conclusions and actions. The irony noted in the sources is that this alleged "madness" and violence grew out of a group focused on reason.

Secondly, the Zizians are frequently labeled and described using language associated with cults. Authorities and media have referred to them as a "cult," "cult-like group," "extremist group," or even a "murder cult". Michelle Zajko, a group member, denies the "murder cult" label. This links them to a history of such groups. The sources explicitly draw comparisons to historical dangerous cults that emerged from the Bay Area, including the Manson Family, the People's Temple, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and Synanon. However, one source notes the Zizians may not have a single "overarching plan" like the Manson Family. Shared characteristics with these types of groups, as described in the sources, can include having an alleged charismatic leader (Jack LaSota), recruiting isolated or vulnerable individuals, encouraging members to distance themselves from family, adopting a rigid ideology, and engaging in alleged violent acts.

Thirdly, the Zizians' use of online platforms like blogs and Discord for communication, radicalization, and organization links them to the contemporary issue of online radicalization and extremism. The sources emphasize how their digital presence allowed them to spread propaganda, coordinate actions, and form an echo chamber, reaching far beyond traditional geographic limits. This mode of operation is highlighted as an evolving threat, showing how ideological extremism fueled by online platforms can spill into real-world violence. The Zizians exemplify this process in the digital age.

Fourthly, their specific blend of beliefs provides further links. Their radical veganism, particularly the idea that meat-eating is a moral failing that could influence a future hostile AI, is a core, radical element. This elevates veganism from a dietary choice to a central, almost apocalyptic, part of their ideology. Their focus on AI risk links them to broader discussions within the tech and rationalist communities, but their alleged violent response distinguishes them from more mainstream approaches to this issue. The sources also mention their interest in transhumanism, an idea also present in rationalist and tech circles. Their adoption of terms like "vegan Siths" and discussing the psychology of killers like Ted Kaczynski indicate a blend of pop culture references and dark ideations not typically associated with mainstream philosophical groups.

Finally, the sources link the Zizians to the potential dangers of abstract intellectual concepts becoming twisted into justification for violence. Their purported interpretation of rationalist ideas like Functional Decision Theory or "timeless" decision-making as justification for violence connects them to discussions about whether reason can lead to its opposite or how intense focus on existential threats can destabilize individuals. The concept of "infohazards", ideas so dangerous they can cause harm, is also linked, with Ziz's writings described as a potential infohazard and the Zizian story itself compared to fictional/thought experiment infohazards like Roko's Basilisk and the Simurgh.

In summary, the Zizians can be linked to the Rationalist community as their source, to various historical cults through shared characteristics and location of origin, and to contemporary issues of online extremism and radicalization. Their unique ideological blend of radical veganism, AI apocalypticism, and warped rationalist concepts, allegedly leading to violence, positions them as a distinct and dangerous manifestation of modern, tech-adjacent extremism.

Is this group a church, sect, or cult? Is this group Fundamentalist or not? Why?

The Zizians are most frequently labeled as a cult, though this term is sometimes disputed or used in a qualified manner. They are not described as a church or a sect in the conventional religious sense. The term "Fundamentalist" is not used in the sources to describe them, and their ideological basis stems from different origins.

Here's a breakdown of how the sources characterize the group:

Church, Sect, or Cult?

The term "cult" is the most common label applied to the Zizians throughout the sources.

Authorities and media outlets frequently refer to them using this term, often as a "cult-like group" or even a "murder cult".
The term "Zizian cult" is used in news headlines and descriptions.
Former acquaintances and rationalist community members have described them as a cult. One source notes that the Center for Applied Rationality (CFAR) co-founder, Anna Salamon, said in hindsight, they were "creating conditions for a cult". The father of Daniel Blank, a group member, believed his son was "under the influence of a cult" and a "victim of the cult".
Characteristics cited in the sources that align with common understandings of cults include: having an alleged or apparent leader, Jack "Ziz" LaSota; recruiting isolated or vulnerable individuals; encouraging members to distance themselves from family and friends; having a rigid or extreme ideology; and allegedly engaging in violent acts tied to their beliefs. The sources also mention practices like unihemispheric sleep and distinct moral categories for people ("non-good," "single-good," "double-good").

However, the "cult" label is not universally accepted or applied without nuance in the sources:

Michelle Zajko, a member, explicitly denies the "murder cult" label, stating, "We aren't a murder cult" and "You, the public, are being lied to".
Some sources describe them as a "loose group" or "network" rather than a strictly defined cult.
The group members themselves reportedly did not adopt the name "Zizians" and did not accept the implication that they were a formal group with a leader.
The term "cult" is sometimes presented as a label applied by outsiders, the media, or on a website created by former associates.
One source suggests they are not necessarily connected in "one overarching plan" like the Manson Family.
The sources indicate their origins are in the Rationalist Community, described as focusing on logic, reason, and AI safety. They are described as an "offshoot" of this movement. This origin distinguishes them from groups that arise from a traditional religious background.
The sources also use terms like "group", "movement", "network", "clique", "extremist group", and "fringe group" to describe them.

The sources do not describe the Zizians as a church, which typically implies a large, established religious organization with formal rituals and broad societal acceptance.

They are also not described as a sect in the traditional sense, as this usually refers to a group that has broken away from a larger, established religious denomination. While the Zizians did split from the Rationalist community, the sources present Rationalism as an intellectual or philosophical movement concerned with logic and AI, rather than a conventional religious body.

Therefore, based on the provided materials, "cult" is the most frequently applied label, albeit one that is debated and used by outsiders or presented as a nickname, while the group itself may not use this term or view themselves this way. Their origins as an offshoot of the Rationalist community are also emphasized.

Fundamentalist or Not?

The term "Fundamentalist" is not used in any of the provided sources to describe the Zizians.

The Zizians' beliefs are rooted in a complex mix of ideas derived from the Rationalist community (AI safety, decision theory), radical veganism, anarchism, transhumanism, and unique theories about brain hemispheres and morality. While they are described as having a rigid, dogmatic worldview and "extreme" beliefs, this rigidity appears to stem from their intense interpretation and application of these specific philosophical, ethical, and scientific (or pseudo-scientific) concepts, rather than from a literal interpretation of religious scripture, which is characteristic of religious fundamentalism. Their primary focus is on perceived threats like AI and the moral implications of human behavior (especially meat-eating), framed through their unique blend of ideologies, not religious doctrine.

In conclusion, the sources overwhelmingly use the term "cult" or "cult-like group" to describe the Zizians, emphasizing their split from the Rationalist community and alleged charismatic leadership, rigid ideology, and violent actions. However, they are not described as a church or sect, and the term "Fundamentalist" is not used in the sources, as their ideological basis is presented as philosophical and tech-related rather than religious.